Sep 14

What petitions up and down will the state ok?

27 comments

Agenda is up for September meeting. Sawtooth will only lose Lighthouse if they approve all the petitions. I never seen any turned down. Most are based on proximity. The Sun Valley Community school wants to go down to 1a d2 from 2a. Only play volleyball and Basketball in that league and have not been competitve in either sport for some time.

 

Murtaugh is petitioning down but next cycle will have 120 kids based on enrollment in Grade school. Castleford border line old enrollment, but athletics not that great.

 

Canyone Ridge petitioning down to 4a. Rexburg, Idaho falls and Pocatello or to the Treasure Valley would be a cost. I am not familar with Northern Idaho or treasure valley but I would say Proximity is the main reason schools petition up or down. Competitive not doing well is for some. But who plans to go up or down is already on the agenda. I have yet to see any petition denied. One was real close though.

 

Valley back to 2a. Sometimes will see dropping or rising enrollments in Jr High and Grade school as reason. See what state will do.

I've heard that Shelley is petitioning to go down to 3A for 2 seasons.

 

TT

Sep 14

Put Shelley where their enrollment places them. It's obvious that they don't like the shoe on the other foot. Everything was great when they magically seemed to be at one or two below the 3A max.

Sep 14

Not sure what's going on in the IML north? I've heard that Priest River and Kellogg are already at 2A enrollment. Timberlake and Bonners are around high 400's to mid 500's. Say Priest and Kellogg go down. What do you do with Bonners and Timberlake? Both would have a tough time in 4A with Lakeland, Moscow, and Sandpoint, but would it be fair to put them in 2A with schools almost half of their enrollment?

Honestly, if PR and Kellogg dropped, Bonners and Timberlake could just do what Declo and Wendell do in District 4 2A. The winner goes to the playoffs and the loser gets in or denied depending on their RPI.

 

Also, if Kellogg were to drop to 2A, it is my honest opinion that they should Co-op with Wallace and Mullan to form a 3A or 4A program. I know that they have tried this in the past but the older generation including my own grandparents, Grandmother (Wallace) and Grandfather (Kellogg) have always shut down the possibility due to rivalries.

 

But adding a 4th 4A program in the north would be cool for that District.

 

PR would be a good add to the 2A pool up there too.

Sep 18

just an observation from my morning scan of the coaches and media polls in the 4 a column ,, then went on the web to check enrollment in the top 5 schools listed , then to the state to check classifications for enrollment , seems like alot of kids enrolled in the schools have larger enrollments then aloud by the state listed in the top 5 to be in 4 a ... be interesting to me how this plays out in the play offs

To save time for someone else on the google machine this is what was referenced with the 4A top 5 (6) (based off 2016-17 numbers):

1. Kuna (1,499)

2. Nampa (1,522)

3. Bishop Kelly (777)

4. Vallivue (1,055)

T-5. Hillcrest (1,610)

T-5. Middleton (2,044)

 

With the cap being 1,200+ for 5A the 1, 2, and both 5 place teams would be moved up.

But, take the 4A SIC for instance. Moving up the schools whose enrollment is over the threshold would only leave 4 schools in 4A SIC (BK, VV, Ridgevue, and Emmett) and would really inflate the already inflated 5A SIC to 15 schools. It seems, at this time, that the overall classification is still competitive and balanced. Once the scale tips and it is no longer competitive then it will definitely be time to enforce the policies.

@Sports_Fan The Hillcrest numbers are incorrect as well. 2018 was the first year of the new Thunder Ridge High school which split Hillcrest and Bonneville. Which I believe are now both closer to 800-1000 max with TR being 1250+.

I'm not sure where you got your numbers, but some are close and one is grossly incorrect.

That being said, I don't know why Kuna and Nampa are still 4A.

105-2018-20 Enrollmentpdf

 

 

 

 

TT

TT, I mentioned the Google machine so I should have been clearer and just put google.com I am sorry for any confusion. But comparing your pdf (thanks for including that) and google most are within most are within 20 and the exception being Middleton, not sure where google came up with the 2,044 but I stand corrected.

Sep 25Edited: Sep 25

I agree with them all, I am not very familiar with McCall-Donnelly to know if it will work for them or not. Right now, they could beat more than 50% of the 3A teams in the state, so it could be a great move for them. Idaho Falls to 5A is going to hurt. I believe they will be in the same spot as Shelley next year and be everyone's whipping boy. Kuna is doing well right now and have in the past, that move may be good for them as well.

 

I do like how things are ran down here in Colorado though. Here, each sport has different classifications. So where I am now with 1,300 students, is classified as 3A Football, 4A Basketball, 4A Volleyball, 3A Tennis, 4A Soccer, ect.... Could be an interesting move if Idaho went to something similar in the future.

I.F. has a talented group of athletes coming up. I do think this move will hurt them in the long run, so I hope that they can move back soon. They were only over by 21 and are now considered the smallest school in 5A. Never thought I'd hear those words.

Yea, as is with about 90% of the schools that move up, your going to be the smallest school in the new classification and your first few years are going to be rough. I hope that the talented group you speak of are sophomores or freshmen, if not the transition will be harder. If they can come in and do well their first or second year, it will help the transition greatly in numbers that show out in the future years.

The JV quarterback is Skylar Olsen (sp) He seems pretty awesome. I.F. has not had any decent quarterbacks for some time. The Tigers biggest Achilles heels as of late have been penalties and defending against the pass. Other than that, they have done much better in certain areas the last couple of years.

I.F. will be fine given time. There numbers are very misleading because they only count students in Idaho Falls High School, however they pull students from Compass Academy to play sports. They do not count students who live in their boundaries but attend C.A. only students who play sports.Their numbers should reflect those students at Compass Academy who live within I.F.'s boundaries (same applies for Skyline) this would add at least a couple hundred students to I.F. and some to Skyline as well. Based on true numbers Idaho Falls should have belonged in 5A for a few years.

I for one am glad that these teams were denied their petitions to move down. Play where your numbers put you and deal with getting better rather than wanting to be the big dog in the division. In fact I was shocked to see that Shelley was on this list and had petitioned down. I admit that it is a numbers game and the more students the better the chances of having athletes to compete, but in the past Shelley had the attitude and culture of "we will play anybody anywhere win lose or draw". Over the last few years that has diminished and heard often the excuses of "that was a tough schedule" or "those teams are just bigger than us". Combine that attitude with fewer kids coming out to play and really fewer athletes that are willing to put in the hard work that it takes to become a champion, then you will see the results you are having. I heard at one time earlier prior to this years season that there were only 7 seniors that were going to play football. Coach Wells put in a ton of effort recruiting as many players as he could and was very successful at getting kids out. Some that have never played before. Some that it had been years since they had played. Shelley will be just fine. There are some very talented groups of kids coming up through the program and Coach Wells will get his system rolling and they will see future success. Every school has ebbs and flows of the talent pool. Some choose to use that as an excuse, others see it as an opportunity to work harder and compete at your best level.

 

Now for the schools that were granted their petition down, well done! I hope you can dominate in every sport and bring home trophy after trophy. You've earned that right by not making your programs better and giving in to the "this road is easier" mentality. Giving participation ribbons for all seems to be the here and now. Probably here to stay. I for one am not sold on that idea of mediocrity being the best for the youth.

 

Funny to see you post this and Shelleys position the last 6-7 years... But I do agree with your points.

Great post! This strategy is playing out across the state at all classifications by administrators.

Oct 17

II feel folks should play the class that your enrollment is. And it kills me the with the Nov Mar counts. I remember seeing for years Skyview would be over at the Nov count, and would be 1 under for the Mar count???? With Nampa and Caldwell allowed to play down to 4A the are over twice the size of Emmett. I also just feel that Idaho makes it more diffacult than it needs to be. There is 163 HS in Idaho. They want 6 classes, do the math. That puts 27 in each class. Someone is always going to be the biggest and someone will be the smallest in each div.

Oct 17

Are you volunteering to be the smallest every year? Yes, we all know the platitudes about hard work and perseverance building character, etc..., but it's rare for kids today to stay with something when the success, or opportunity for success, is minimal. It is rare, yes I know it sometimes happens, that the smallest school is competitive with the larger schools.

In Idaho, if you straight divide the number of schools in four or five divisions, you are going to have some pretty large gaps between largest and smallest.

I've been saying for years that a relegation system, like European soccer, or some states have already adopted, be used. The better, more competitive schools will find their levels, and the less competitive schools will find their levels.

@chuck I agree with this. I have a good group of friends from Hawaii. They have some schools who have 500 kids in them in the highest division and winning championships. They started out in Size of school but a school will move up a division after reaching a certain level of success the prior season. It's not perfect, but it eliminates that one team from being just under the numbers to move up and are dominating the schools of their division year after year. Here in Colorado, they run a similar way where each sport is different. We play at the 3A football level but our Volleyball and basketball programs are at the 4A level and even at that level are beating most 5A programs.

of the 4a teams left (8) how many of them really have 5a numbers? How many of them successfully petitioned to stay at 4A? It seems obvious to me the state should go by enrollment numbers only?

 

It's obvious to you or is that a question?

2 with the numbers. 1 successfully petioned to stay down. Nampa has not been nearly as successful as Kuna at the 4a level.

Nov 4Edited: Nov 4

@Coach Newell OK I get that Century's defense this year has been sketchy - but I thought that Nampa coming across state probably would not win that one - However, in the 4A level I know that there are still games to be played, but I see it coming down to Nampa vs Kuna.... both of which have solid 5a numbers. In fact if Kuna were in the east they would be the largest 5A school in that region right now. If they were in the North they would be the second largest HS in that region next to Lake. https://idhsaa.org/asset/document/105-2020-22%20Enrollment_List%20SDE%20Figures.pdf

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1- Nampa the last couple of years at least in football has been very competitive, they are not moving up they will be 4A for the foreseeable future and they are larger than many of the 5A programs in the EAST and North - I get that Kuna is moving up. however, they probably should not have moved down in the first place. To illustrate the point even further, maybe Highland should petition to move down. For the last couple of years they have not won state in anything and the only state tournament that they have competed in is football...

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